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January 25
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A lot of Christians seem to be fond of crying about the oppression they experience in American society. My first response is to laugh, but a lot of these people take themselves very seriously so I feel like I should give them a semi-serious answer to some of the claims I've heard. By "semi-serious", I mean I will include some facts but I will still have a deriding attitude. I can only try so hard. Now usually, I don't like formatting a question-answer session against an imaginary opponent since it seems unfair, but this isn't really an imaginary opponent. All of these statements or questions have been put to me before so, as far as I'm concerned, they are fair game.


"Christianity is becoming endangered."


Honey, this is America. Christians are the vast majority in this country. A 2007 poll places the percentage at 78.4% Christian [1]. The vast majority of our politicians and even our president identifies as Christian. The fact that people were shocked at the possibility of a Mormon president indicates that we are used to a very homogenous religious identity for our Commander in Chief.


Christians are not endangered. Their number might be slowly dropping, but I'd say that's a failure on the part of religious folks, not a hostile secular environment. Maybe if there were better spokespersons for the religion in the spotlight and a better face on the movement people would flock to the churches when bad things happen instead of running away. Passing out tracts isn't going to help that reputation, by the way. You'll have to actually get off of your asses and make a change. Sorry.


"Christians face more discrimination than gays."


Really? You really want to argue that? Let's look at the numbers. According to FBI statistics on hate crimes in 2011, less than 2% of offenses were motivated by anti-protestant or anti-catholic bias [2]. In comparison, 20.8% were motivated by sexual orientation bias. That's 117 incidents against Christians and 1,491 incidents against gays, lesbians, or bisexuals. There were 17 incidents against heterosexuals. Of the incidents against Christians, only 15 were identified as crimes against the individual (assault, intimidation) and there were no murders or rapes. The rest of the incidents were crimes against property (theft, vandalism, etc). In contrast, 1,124 hate crimes comitted against LGB people were crimes against the individual, including 3 murders and 2 rapes. These statistics don't even account for crimes motivated by gender identity bias for which there is no category.


"But that's not-"


Shush. I'm not done yet. You want even more perspective? As horrible as these statistics are, racially-motivated hate crimes dwarf crimes motivated by sexual orientation at 46.9% with 72% of those being against blacks. Religious bias took third seat after sexual orientation with 62.2% of those crimes being comitted against Jewish people and 13.3% comitted against Islamic people. Catholic and Protestant bias put together would make up 8.9% of the religious crimes.


And that is just hate crimes. Consider that, as of 2007, only 20 US states and Washington D. C. prohibitted employment, housing, and private business discrimination on basis of sexuality [3]. I believe that number is 21 states now, but I could not find a reliable source to be certain. Religion and creed is a protected class in every state. Still feeling the discrimination?


"I am. Just try discussing Creationism in the classroom of a major secular university."


Okay, don't claim that Creationism is the same thing as Christianity. There are many Christians that choose to believe modern science and it is insulting to combine Christianity and Creationism as one, as if you can't believe one and not the other. As for your "discrimination", I expect that most modern scientists don't appreciate their class being deviated from a discussion of scientific theory to a discussion of a religious story. You probably wouldn't appreciate it if someone interrupted a church service to talk about how to convert to Wicca. It just isn't that you hate pagans, but it isn't the time or place to discuss it. In the same way, a science teacher is not going to appreciate you interrupting their class to discuss religion.


"But the majority of discrimination isn't reported in the anti-Christian media."


My statistics up there have nothing to do with media. This is the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the laws on the books in your states. Please, find a reputable source if you want to rebut me instead of claiming that the entire media is in the pocket of secular activists. It's not.  We have Fox News.  Case closed.


"Even so, our religious traditions are under attack by organizations like the ACLU."


Listen, your religious traditions should end at the border of your home and your property. No one is going to walk into your home and tell you to stop praying or to take down your tacky light-up Christmas nativity. However, if you want your religion to be the sole one represented in public property, policy, and education, you are going to have to duke it out with our founding fathers. They are the ones that advocated for a government that would not establish a religion, nor prevent the free exercise thereof [4]. Yes, sometimes that means things change and some traditions have to be altered, but change really isn't all that scary once you get to know it. In other words, feel free to worship however you please whenever you please, but don't expect the government advocate it.


"It is more socially accepted to hate Christians than any other group in America."


This statement can't really be discussed factually because it is purely an opinion. It might have some merit, but that's hard to objectively ascertain. I would point out the hate-crime statistics above, but that is only crimes, not actual public opinion. I will agree that there is a lot of bias against Christianity, but I have found most of that bias is against the intolerant, ugly facade that many associate with it, not the actual people. From my personal experience, I've only been treated rudely once for mentioning my religion (and that wasn't even in the USA). On the other hand, my gender has earned me several rude or cruel comments, my sexual orientation has earned me many, and my political ideas have earned me the most. It seems to me that people respond harshly to things that they perceive to be hostile or threatening. So consider this: if you are getting that much hate, maybe you're presenting your religion poorly.


"But what about all of the anti-Christian laws being enacted? Abortion, gay marriage, etc?"


Laws that you disagree with are not discrimination. Being required to abide by laws that everyone else has to abide by is not discrimination. Every citizen dislikes something about the way our country is run. That doesn't mean that they are being discriminated against. Discrimination is unequal treatment, not "thing that I do not like."


"But these laws will make me look like a bigot!"


Maybe you are.


You know, I think the thing that bothers me the most about these people who complain about the discrimination they face as Christians is that there ARE Christians facing persecution in the world. These people probably find the idea of a religiously welcoming society, run by Christians and with a church on every corner amazing! What a wonderful country this must be, where religion is not persecuted, but embraced by the majority of the population!


Oh, but we can't teach Creationism in schools.


I know that the thought of being persecuted must be attractive for Christians at a time when our numbers are dropping. It's much nicer to blame outside factors and secular hostility for the failing and dwindling of religion than to point the finger at ourselves. But honestly, that is dishonest. It is disgustingly, enormously, mind-numbingly dishonest. When innocent Christians in other countries are being persecuted, and when Christians in this country are persecuting innocents, crying over your own discomfort is selfish and pathetic. American Christians are not under attack and they are not persecuted. Stop crying about it. It makes you look like a douche.


Oops, I said a bad word. I'm probably persecuting you.


References



[1] http://religions.pewforum.org/reports


[2] http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2011/narratives/incidents-and-offenses


[3] http://www.irem.org/pdfs/publicpolicy/Anti-discrimination.pdf


[4] The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.  Look it up.

:iconeternalgeekexposed:
Okay, I indulged in some snark here. I'm probably going to get some crap for it, but I couldn't resist. American Christians that fuss about how "persecuted" they are make me laugh and sneer at the same time. I'm aware that there are plenty of people with anti-Christian attitudes or crimes against Christians (that is addressed in this essay) but wide-spread persecution? Don't make me laugh.

As I said above, I don't make a habit of the fake question/answer format because most people who do this try to make the opponent sound like a moron and misrepresent their arguments. However, all of these questions/statements have been put to me in the past, so it's GAME ON, persecuted Christians!

As always, keep it civil, I will block, blah blah. Otherwise, enjoy a chuckle!
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:icondifferentshirley:
I don't like labeling personally. I was raised in a household that didn't ever talk about God, and I didn't even know of the existence of Christianity or anything else until I was in 4th grade. But, even if I don't understand religion on a personal level, I never disrespect someone for their believes. I have many friends that are from all walks of life from furries to Christians to Mormons to LGBTs and I respect them all for what they believe because they respect my beliefs as well. But I have to say that I have a personal low opinion of religion because of family history and personal experience. I could never believe in anything that is often used to fuel bigotry or hatred.

So yes, I agree that Christian Persecution is absolutely ridiculous, but I can understand how Christians could believe that Christianity is under fire because lately I've noticed that Christianity and other religions have been painted in a bad light in the news and in general.
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:iconeternalgeekexposed:
Christians that believe that they are being persecuted in the USA need to be given a sense of perspective. Yes, it is often painted in a bad light, but that is because there are many bad Christians giving them a bad name. That needs to become unacceptable enough that they become just complete fringe. Christians need to start cleaning up the name of Christianity and that's just not really happening.
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:iconkilrjoey3:
I myself am an atheist, and I have mixed views on the subject. I believe people should not be hated or persecuted for really any view, be it sexuality, religion, or anything else.I despise how much of that still exists today, and try to be accepting of everything. But Christianity annoys me. Religion in general, but Christianity has some really annoying bits. 1 Christianity leaves no room for other religions. If you have a different religion, you are a monstrous demon worshipper and will go to he'll. 2 Christians seem blind in their faith, seeing everything meant to be, and their god as some benevolent, omniscient deity that created the entire universe in a few days. Huh, if he was so omniscient and benevolent, wouldn't the world be less terrible? So many plot holes that vex me. 3 they believe that praying will do anything, that somehow the basics and fundamentals of science are actually controlled by their god without the scientists noticing. 4 they call their deity God. God. Capital g. Just to further scream at you, OUR GOD IS THE ONLY REAL GOD SO YOU ARE WRONG IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE. Note that I have little against Christians, just a lot against Christianity.
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:iconeternalgeekexposed:
There are many forms of Christianity and many ways that someone follows their faith. It is often a very personal thing. Yes, a lot of Christianity has been this way throughout history, but saying they believe "praying does anything" and "fundamentals of science are controlled by their god" or that they are "blind to their faith" is just not true of everyone. I've seen SO many different shades of faith from super-conservative-violent to super-pacifist-nearly-agnostic to everything in between.

Out of curiosity, why do you find calling the deity God wrong? If you believe something to be true, why would you call it anything else? If a pagan talks about the gods, is that any different? If you didn't believe it was true, you wouldn't believe in it. I think it is perfectly acceptable and right for humans to call their deities by the names/titles that they believe in. That doesn't mean that anyone else has to believe the same thing. Just curious about that comment. Thanks for writing and reading! =)
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:iconkilrjoey3:
I merely feel it elevates God to greater levels, and levels no room for others. It's just personal opinion, but I feel that it says that all others are meaningless.
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:iconeternalgeekexposed:
Well, you are right that it does say that all other gods aren't gods, but... that doesn't seem like such a strange thing to say. If you believe there is only one god, then you must believe that all other gods are false. If you believe in only 10 gods, then you must believe that all other gods are false. If you are an atheist and believe in 0 gods, then you must believe that all gods are false. That's not arrogance, simply honesty about what they believe to be true.

For example, I don't believe in ghosts. I have friends who do, and that's okay, but I'm not going to pretend I believe in something I don't to avoid confronting the fact that we believe different things. If my lack of belief makes them feel offended or insecure in their beliefs, they need to learn to be more tolerant of different beliefs/lack thereof. Differences like these ought to be celebrated and explored rather than feared.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I think it is unreasonable to expect people to be dishonest about what they believe in order to avoid disagreement. Disagreement is a good thing, as long as it is handled maturely... like this discussion. Thanks for reading! =)
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:icongoldshroom:
Mood: Peaceful *goldshroom Mar 7, 2013  Student Writer
I haven't been persecuted. Well, not in person. The anonymity of the Internet has a way of bringing out the worst in people of any creed, so I overlook the rare mockery of my convictions.

At any rate, I have gay friends and I have done nothing but treat them with the respect any person deserves. Whatever the Bible says, or how we interpret the words (I've lost count of how many denominations there are these days), I know that one key teaching is that God is the ultimate judge, not us.
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:iconeternalgeekexposed:
Yes, I've gotten a few nasty comments for my religion on the internet, but I also dismiss it. I get heckled for anything and everything under the sun on the internet, so I can hardly consider it religious persecution. What makes me laugh (or sneer) is when American Christians seem to think that they are being systematically persecuted by law and by little minority groups, like gays or atheists. It just sounds laughable to me, but some people are honestly convinced they are in a war zone.

Haha yes, you'd think with all of the denominations of Christians we have out there, we'd realize that truth is not so simple to find and two people can seek it just as hard and come to opposite conclusions. But instead of listening, learning, and admitting "I believe this, but I understand why you believe differently" some people would rather brand every other denomination as "not Christian" which, I might add, goes against the teachings of the Bible.
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:icongoldshroom:
*goldshroom Mar 8, 2013  Student Writer
On the contrary, I understand that "war zone" feeling. I don't think it's a stretch to see the world as an ideological battleground, whether one is Christian or not.
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:iconeternalgeekexposed:
I can understand to an extent, but I don't really view it as a militant thing. I prefer an analogy of a constant discourse than a constant battle. But even so, there's a difference between an ideological war and a pathological need to paint oneself as a victim at the expense of others.
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